When you get an opportunity to talk with someone in the music industry who has humility, passion and insight, it’s special.  The extra-ness and the over-the-top hype that has come to dominate the veneer of the entertainment world which Michael Tolle, Director of Operations at Mello Music Group, has decidedly eschewed.  To listen to someone like Mike discuss the business model of MMG (Mello Music Group, not Rick Ross’ label for this discussion) is truly refreshing and, quite frankly, invigorating considering the tales of woe that are all too common these days.  As I found out after the conversation, Mr. Tolle is downright ecstatic about the current state of the music industry.  Find out why.

Amidst major labels foundering and indies struggling, what was the major impetus in you starting a label in this climate?

It seemed like the perfect opportunity.  Everyone else had spent the past decades accumulating warehouses, office space, employees, and dead weight.  So most record companies were scaling back, I was able to formulate a low overhead plan that focused on the musicians and creating just enough product to fill particular fan base needs.  A lot of talented musicians were without label homes and willing to work to create something new.  I saw some cats that seemed to have been forgotten about by big corporate style labels more because of cash shortages than talent issues.

It wasn’t necessarily all business though: most of it was the fact that music is what keeps me up till 4 am every night.  I had graduated from the University of Arizona in 2006 and started an education company for international students and professors on sabbatical, after a year of working 80 hour weeks, I was missing the days when I dug through records all night, helped throw after hours events, and lived for music.  I had continued listening, but now I had some extra money and didn’t know sh*t about flipping houses or the market, so I invested in what I knew about, what I wanted to support – beats, rhymes, and cuts.

What were some of the labels that provided inspiration or a blueprint for MMG?

One of my biggest influences stylistically was the BBE Beat Generation Series back with Petestrumentals, The Magnificent, Loose Change, Welcome To Detroit, Adventures in Lo-Fi,  Here To There, and Re-Entry. Those records, those packages and the magnetic digipaks changed my vision.  As a label, though, I was fascinated by what Blue Note had done, and of course Barry Gordy at Motown.  Those are the labels I actually studied.  But of course labels I admired, though, I wasn’t as sure on how they functioned were Stones Throw and Roc-a-fella.

The artistic development of MCs/producers on Mello Music Group is apparent.  How do you go about creating quality?

The first thing is to let musicians do what they want to do and encourage them to push themselves musically because failure is cool as long as you don’t fail imitating yourself.  We also like to make the whole teams talent available for each other; so, if Has-Lo needs a mix from Oddisee, cool, Odd’s on it.  Additionally, we try to provide stability, regular paychecks instead of chunk advances.  This gives a little more peace of mind, and means that everyone is free to work on music, not hustle features to pay Verizon for their European roaming charges.  In the end, it’s also about making people feel like they have an entire career to develop, not just a fiscal quarter to show results.

The label seems built or centered around Oddisee and what has become quite an extensive catalog.  Is that by design?

Oddisee is a very talented musician; he is world-class producer and one of the games premier emcees.  He lives music; he travels around the world constantly creating music.  The difference though is he doesn’t just go to a city for a night to do a show, Oddisee lives in these cities for months and really absorbs the musical stylings.  He also befriends great musicians wherever he goes and allows himself to be inspired. So his volume of production is unbelievable.  Add to that the fact that Oddisee is a natural teacher who mentors a lot of cats and you end up with a non-stop series of music to put out.  So he built his own lane at the label.  But on top of that he’s a sharp businessman.  So after a couple of years of working together, he stepped up to be Mello Music Group’s Assistant Director of Operations on the business end.  He’s a workaholic.  It’s perception too, though, until this month, Oddisee didn’t have an official solo release in over a year.  Now he’s got 4 projects slated by years end: Odd Seasons, Rock Creek Park (live instrumentation), People Hear What They See (solo beats & rhymes), and March On Washington (group album with Diamond District).

To be honest though, these days the label is getting to be much wider.  Apollo Brown has been carrying the banner high.  He killed 2010 with The Reset, Brown Study, and his group The Left who put out Gas Mask.  He’s killing 2011, too.  His instrumental project Clouds sold out the first pressing in 2 days.  He’s got a project called Daily Bread coming in July with Hassaan Mackey as well.

The roster is thick here though.  yU of Diamond District (one of the illest emcees out), Has-Lo who’s debut album was honored by XXL, LA Weekly, and a lot of other critical acclaim, Boog Brown who iTunes named to their top 10 new Hip Hop artists in 2010, plus Kenn Starr, Finale, Stik Figa, Nick Tha 1Da, DTMD, Trek Life, The Left, Diamond District, Tranqill, J. Bizness, Slimkat78, Oddisee, and Apollo Brown, plus we always collab with Georgia Anne Muldrow, Dudley Perkins of SomeOthaShip. So the teams heavy with talent; we just started to show what we’ve got in store.

It’s good to see you guys highlighting the talent out of the Washington, D.C. area.  What is Mello Music Group’s affinity to artists from the DMV?

The DMV is one of those areas with a rich musical history, with a rich cultural history, and, on top of that, people hadn’t supported all the talented creators living there.  I just happened to become friends with Oddisee through business and that camp alone runs so deep it could provide hundreds of albums!  I mean they got Kaimbr, Kev Brown, Kenn Starr, Quartermaine, Roddy Rod, Dunc, Toine, Drew Kid, Nick Tha 1Da, yU, XO, Slimkat78, Sean Born, Cy Young,  Eye Q, Peter Rosenberg.  And they’re only a skip away from Damu, Little Brother, Wayna, Grap Luva, Raheem DeVaughn, Eric Roberson.  I mean, that’s a camp!

Are you looking at expanding the brand by adding more artists or further cultivating the existing talent on the label?

First priority is to provide for the cats that are here, that have helped build this home.  But of course to do that, we have to expand the brand.  That means teaching Oddisee, Apollo, and Has-Lo how to run things on the business side so they can take on the people we work with who have talent and fit in our groove.  But we look at development as more than just more tours, more videos, more press, we look at development as teaching our squad how to manage projects, outline marketing campaigns, and create assets.  We’re all abbots!

Discuss the “old model” vs. the “new model” of doing business in this industry in 2011 compared to just a few years ago.  Is this “model” economically viable so all parties involved can make a living while doing something they love to do?

Man, the market is great!  I encourage everyone to get into music.  If you want to be a millionaire then no, go away.   If you want to be a musician, come on in!  What I mean is that those who got in to the game for money are fallin’ off, while those who get in the game for music are getting rich.  You can’t forget the purpose, ever.

As far as models go, the digital age is beautiful; you can do it all from a laptop and a cell phone.  But, that doesn’t mean you don’t need a team.   It’s just that the team doesn’t always need 5^th floor office space.  You have to find the most talented cats from around the world regardless if they’re your homies or from the same area code as it’s a big world full of like-minded people.  You need to hunt down the best at each aspect of the business and run lean.  Work from home, work from the road, but put the budget where it belongs – in the music.  One of the people I study, Guy Kawasaki (Apple’s former head of marketing) talks about being a creator, not a consumer.  If you create, there is always enough for everyone; but if you just consume, then it’s over.  So as a business every person on the squad needs to create something, generate productivity, or else none of us will eat.

We have a lot of people working for us, but as far as employees, I don’t know,  it’s more like a collection of independents under one banner – Mello Music Group.  How do you build that team?  It’s all about each person being dedicated to working as hard as they can to make their teammates to be successful.  If I can blow Oddisee and Apollo Brown and Has-Lo up, then I won; I don’t have to have anything for myself.  And because of that, those guys do the same for me.  On top of that it’s critical to bring your fans into things.  Let the first fans you gain be a part of things, let them grow with you, create work for the talented ones, and reward the loyal ones with recognition.  Social networking let’s you talk directly to everybody.  So when you engage your fans like they’re real people and you talk with them, they talk with you, they help spread the word, and they keep you on point.

A topic that I always felt needed to be addressed more is financing.  How can a person start a label with limited access to financial resources?

On a practical level, learn what the basic elements of the business are and then add to your repertoire daily.  But you need to study artists, musicians, graphic designers, marketers, pr companies, manufacturing, distribution, video, events, photography, mixing, mastering, the whole works.  But then focus back in on one project, work it from start to finish without concern over ups and downs, focus on the each task ahead of you.

Turn one into two; that’s business.  I started with making one song.  I spent every penny I had to get a Kev Brown beat, a Kenn Starr verse, and Rob Swift on the cuts.  Initially, I lost money on that; but in the long run, that first song was a classic, well made, and respectable to this day so it opened doors.  And remember you’re trying to be the best, not your friend’s bank.  It’s not about putting your crew on.  If your crew’s dope, they’ll find a deal.  You need to jump away from nepotism, it leads to inefficiency.  Even now, we’re more likely to put Oddisee managing a project from Detroit and Apollo managing a project from DC than the other way around.  That way, people don’t catch feelings, there’s distance that’s needed to make good decisions.  You’re not “Erik” from 5^th grade around the block, you’re Apollo Motherloving Brown.

To be honest though, you gotta pay for things.  I don’t care, go get 2 full time jobs, and even at minimum wage, you can stack enough to get in the game.  But you got to sacrifice, the label has to be your love, not drinks, or sacks, or new shoes, or tricking.  You need to work whatever hours you need to.  You need to be sleepless like a mug.  My first two years I never slept more than 4 hours a night, I sacrificed part of my life to get going. I worked full time and then full time.  Every penny went into this even when losing, it was like an education, pay dues, learn from each step.  And if you can’t, if you’re tired, then you aint built for it.  I can tell you, I get exhausted, but always every night it’s exciting, I’m angry that I’m sleepy because I want to get more done.  I love doing this!

The other thing is that when you shell out money, you always get more than just what you paid for.  When I bought a remix from Oh No early on, I got a look at a good contract from which to base production deals for my other players.   When I landed my distribution deal and got my accounting statements, I was able to learn how to set up my books.  Everything you do with those above you in the game is a chance to learn; so, often shelling out a few bucks for work is worth more than the product or service you buy, it’s the knowledge you glean from the encounter.

How do you handle saturation?  Meaning, you want to give the customer just enough, but not too much music to keep their attention.

That’s tough, you want to feed the machine, but not burn it out.  I guess the best way is to make sure your artists are wearing different hats.  I mean as long as the musicians are growing with each project it isn’t too much.  So if Apollo can do an instrumental project and lock himself away in a Detroit winter digging through records then that’s good for him musically.  Then a couple months later he can come out and flex, link up with an emcee and bang out some tracks for a vocals album with all the source material he built up.  From there he might do a group project to run off the energy of a team and bounce ideas around, get feedback and learn compromise, adjust his sound to theirs.  But by then he’s ready to jump into a slightly different arena, do some guest spots, some showcases.  Maybe come back with a remix project.  So as long as he keeps moving in new ways and then cycling back – you can put a lot of projects out without getting stale or boring your audience.  The danger comes when you try to make the same album over and over again, when the same crew does the same thing. That’s dead.  Imitation, even of self, is suicide.

What’s your take on artists giving away music – good music at that – for free?  Do you feel that hurts or helps the industry as a whole?

Giving away music is essential, there’s no reason not to give away 2, 3, 4 tracks from your album.  I mean if you think in terms of creating great projects, not just great songs, then you have 10, 12, 15 tracks on a project.  If you give 3 away and fans dig them, they’re going to support you and buy the album.  People are generous, people like to buy sh*t, it’s not like most people are stingy, even in tough times.  But you have to share first to get them to connect with you.

And as far as giving away whole projects for free, why not?  If you don’t have a fan base yet, then that’s perfect, and if you do have a fan base then sometimes free projects are a great way to test the water and try to expand.  If a project hits, then press it up. People like to collect things and get the official editions on wax or cd.  And if you add bonus material, and master it, really give people their money’s worth, then people will get the free album then cop the official, even digitally. Our fans know that’s how we keep making music, so they’re so supportive.

One of the stranger phenomena when I started was that the tracks we gave away free almost always ended up being the tracks that sold most.  Now I don’t know the exact science behind it, but I imagine what was happening is that people were getting the free joint, bumping it, and their peoples were picking it up.  Plus, I think a lot of people would see it, like an ad, and maybe not even register that they saw it, but then when they were on iTunes, or emusic, or at the store, they’d see that song and buy it off that familiarity.

How has Diamond District directly affected Mello Music Group?

Diamond District In The Ruff was MMG’s breakthrough album, it was the one that people really took notice of and landed us on a lot of end of year “Best of” lists.  I remember TableSauce, who now works with Black Milk, but at the time was with Fat Beats Distro and was schooling me, said to do this one right, get the PR team on it and handle it because this could be the album that established us as a label.  And it did. The album sold well, it garnered accolades and laid the foundation for the coming year (year of The Left Gas Mask!).  It was a trip because people I look up to and respect like DJ Spinna, Phonte, Pos from De La Soul, Alex Chase of Stones Throw UK, and magazines like Rolling Stone were giving us major praise.  I think it was Pos of De La Soul’s comment that stuck the most though: “It’s one thing to be motivated to write because it’s your job. It’s another thing to be motivated due to good rhymes & music. Diamond District is motivation at it’s Best!”   That was what it is all about, one of Hip Hop’s legends had just laid some heavy praise on us and things changed going forward.  People started saying some big things, comparing Diamond District to a new sort of Tribe. It was wild.  Oddisee was doing producer showcases alongside people like DJ Premier, Diamond D, Marco Polo.

Today, Diamond District is working on their follow up album March On Washington and it’s humbling, because some of these same cats that gave so generously with their words before are now still backing us and offering to be on the project.  I don’t want to give names yet until everything is locked in and recorded, but the fact that some of these legends want to be a part of the Diamond District thing is a highlight.  All the glory goes to Oddisee, X.O., and yU though, they’re the genius behind Diamond District, and the label is a small part, lucky to be involved.

It seems like the list of yearly releases continues to grow.  How many projects do you plan on dropping in 2011 and 2012, respectively?

We put out 1 album in 2008, 4 in 2009, and 9 in 2010, this year, 2011, we have over 20 projects, and next year it’s likely to be around 30.  We already have about 8 projects for 2012 in the works, so we’ll see.  I’d be happy making 5 great albums a year, but as long the quality is there and the team can give each one the attention it deserves, then we’ll keep growing.

Do you have any insights to aspiring artists and/or individuals looking at being involved in the music industry in 2011?

Don’t be overbearing, don’t jack peoples instrumental projects and make them your demos.  I’d say that if people aren’t biting when you pitch stuff, then it’s not as good as you think.  Amir likes to say that the biggest problem today is over exposure and underdevelopment.  Before you build a webpage and get a manager and graphic designer, get a dj and a producer on your squad.

By the same token, don’t let anything stop you.  If you’re willing to work long hours and help others, you’re golden. Business is nothing other than doing something for people.  So if you want in the game, create value for the people you admire and offer it up freely without any expectation of getting something in return.  When you do that people naturally want to work with you, keep your eyes and ears open and you should be able learn enough to make a career, either as an artist, musician, or businessperson.

Beyond that, study the legends and live a rich, full life.

Be sure to check out the latest from Mello Music Group, Oddisee’s Odd Seasons, available now.

Thank you to Michael Tolle for his time and welcomed assistance in this interview.

Chris Moss

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